I am getting all my supplies to tile a shower and while at Home Depot, noticed an alternative to cement backerboard. It is much lighter, and has a grid pattern on it. Is this too good to be true, or should I bypass this for regular cement type?
I don't shop at Depot very often, but I think the product you saw was Hardi-Backer. Hardi-Backer is a great product. Cuts cleaner than Wonderboard. It's also strong. I use it almost exclusively.
D.L.R.C. Construction and renovations
If it was beige, then it was Hardibacker. Not too much weight difference between that and other cement backers of the same thickness. Gets installed the same way, thinsetted and screwed to the floor. If it was orange and on a roll, then it was Ditra which is a top of the line antifracture/uncoupling membrane and yes, it is very light.
you can get ditra a HD?
D.L.R.C. Construction and renovations
I am doing our kitchen/hall/1/2 bath over.I was told Durock was the product to use.I found it at Lowes.Would either of these other 2 products be the better choice? I am planning on using ceramic tile and there is existing flooring we are going over?Any help is greatly appreciated.
Please be aware that sheet vinyl flooring is cushioned, and therefore NOT an acceptable part of your underlayment. It is my opinion that Ditra Matting is superior to Durock because of the uncoupling of the tile to thesubfloor.
In regards to an alternative to backerboard; this product is fantastic. It is by Schluter and can be seen at Home Depot. Lightweight, ease of application, and has an orange waffle weave look; can be cut with a sharp knife. Promises to never have cracked tile again; much quicker application than backerboard.
i would use the cement board. never have to worry about a "spongy" wall. easy to use, just heavy. used it several times with great success!
I sell James Hardie backerboard through a wholsale distribution network. Buy the Hardie!! It can be scored and snapped with a utility knife. While it does have to be taped and mudded, it can be put down with an air nailer with roofing nails.
what is the install method for ditra?
i have seen the same type underlayment as the ditra at lowe's,i'm not sure of the name,but it looks and works just like the ditra
Recently I built a new home and in my master bath shower on the walls I have 6 X 6 porcelin tiles. My contractor did not use any special board on the walls behind it. He told me that he used a waterproof adhesive. Is this good enough or am I likely to have problems down the road? I this procedure acceptable?
If the products is orange with a grid it is Schleuter ditra.
What did he call it? Triple Flex?
Did he use it right over plaster?
My understanding is that there is a waterproofing called triplex, but it should be applied over durock or hardiboard.
It is meant to be used as a additional precaution on areas that are horzontal like seats and niches in showers. And troweled all over in steam showers.
The clinic where I work just had some extensive remodling done.This new alternative backerboard was used under a metal/carpet insert at the front enterance. The contractor could not believe that this was called for, unsealed and NOT covered with tile, grout and sealer. Needless to say, that after a few months of tracking in wet snowy slop, it is falling apart like wet sheet rock. I would advise that after tiling and grouting that it be sealed well so there is no chance of moisture penetrating it!
quote:Not as good as using the backerboard and you may get moisture damage later.
I used Hardibacker for my tub deck and my bathroom floor. I found that it really sucks the moisture out of the mortar, so you might need extra to really get the tiles to adhere. otherwise, I really liked how easy it is to carry and cut.
Next time try dampening the backerboard with water in a clean sprayer throughout your installation. You don't want to soak the area to the point that water puddles but enough to give you time to properly set each tile. Drawing the moisture out of the thin-set mortar too quickly can cause the bond from the backerboard, mortar and tile to be compromised.
I hope you used a modified thinset specifically designed for your installation.
There are 4 basic types of ceramic tile backerboard. Cement based, gypsum based, plywood and the newer lightweight plastic type. All are available from different manufactures and suppliers. Each are meant to be used in conjunction with your home's floor joists,subfloor and mortar to create a stable platform for the finished product (ceramic,stone porcelain etc...) This is usually referred to as a subfloor system.
1)Cement base backerboard-constructed of light-weight concrete and fiberglass mesh reinforcement. Known under the brand names of Durock by USG or Wonderboard by C.B.P. Each are comparable in price and application. These products can be used on walls, floors and countertops. All perform very well when exposed to moisture.
2)Gypsum based - There are two types. One similar to drywall known as "Greenboard" or "Blueboard" for the color of its water-resistant paper coating. It is acceptable ONLY for wall-tile installation. Widely used in many new homes showers this product has a limited lifespan and WILL fail due to continued exposure to moisture (5-10 yrs). As a rule I never use this product. It is for production housing and problematic. The second type is constucted of gypsum, cement and fiberglass. A far better choice offering ease of use and moisture resistance. Typically has a more regular surface than the cement type backerboard which makes installation easier especially for the D.I.Y. Can be used on floors, walls and countertops. Not the best choice for some floor applications. Known under the brand names Hardi-backer and Fiber-rock.
3)Plywood - The "Original" tile backer board. Used mainly on floors and countertops. Use exterior rated plywood only as other types may delaminate when exposed to moisure during installation and use. DO NOT USE OSB,PARTICLE BOARD or MDF as they are not stable in any installation. Even exterior plywood will react poorly to moisure and is not always the best choice.
4) Plastic type subfloor - Newer to the industry these prducts offer some great performance but are not always the best choice. Pay close attention to and understand the manufacturers installation instructions. I've heard of some horror stories w/ these products but my research has shown that 99% of them arise from improper installation methods not product failure. They can be used to help correct some subfloor issues.
Tile installation is not as easy as some might think. Most failures are cause by improper installation methods. Find a place to get good advise. Don't expect to get good information about installation from your big home improvement warehouses. Go there for price. Research products and follow ALL the installation instructions.
By no special board do you mean ordinary drywall? If so you will have problems down the road. This is not an acceptable method. At a minimum water-resistant green board should be use. As for the "WATERPROOF" adhesive....I would like to know the name of the product he's refering to. Most organic adhesives used in tile installation are water-resistant not waterproof. Nor should they be misused as waterproofing. They are not. A separate product in needed for true waterproofing of the wall. This cannot be achieved using a "Waterproof adhesive". In your case I hope he at leased painted the bare wall before installation. That may save you costly repairs down the road. Maintain your bathroom by sealing the grout with a high-end sealer and make sure that you use 100% silicone caulk around the tub/shower and in the corners of the walls. If the $ value is high enough I would make your contractor prove that he followed the manufactures installation procedures as to not void their warranty. Most contractors warranty their work for one year but the adhesive and thinset manufacturers may warranty the product for many more. This is a common problem and unfortunately many homeowners find out way to late to do anything about. And oh by the way porcelain tile requires adhestive specifically designed for its installation. Fortunatly most products on the market are acceptable but not all. Porcelain tile is very dense and some adhesives are not strong enough to bond it properly to the wall.
I know of two products DITRA by Schluter and UNIMAT by Blanke which years ago used to be the same company. Both types are installed using similar methods. Basically you are creating a "FLOATING FLOOR". Both products require that the mat be first bonded to the subfloor using special thinset mortars. DO NOT NAIL OR STAPLE MAT TO YOUR FLOOR! Follow the manufacturers recomendations as the install methods for DITRA have recently been revised. This layer isolates subfloor movement and acts as a crack isolation barrier meant to keep the finish surface (your tile) crack free. Next you install your tile again using special thinset mortar and proper trowel size recommended by the manufacturer. The key here is to get 100% coverage on the tile and mat with thinset. Fill the dimples in the mat completely. This will require 35-50% more thinset than other backerboard options. Do not bottom out the tile to this or any other backerboard. You want a thin layer of mortar between the two to ensure proper coverage and bonding. The products are quicker to install and offer some solutions to problematic installations especially with natural stone which is prone to cracking than tile. It is more expensive that other types of backerboard but you will save on time. I've seen 300sf of the material go down in less that 2hrs which is remarkable. Cement backer board in the same size area would take 1/2 day or longer. Get advice and make sure that it is right for your application. Floor use only and I know that UNIMAT can be made waterproof. Ditra?
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